Dr. Rob Reimer's River Dwellers Vs. Kevin Reeves' The Other Side of the River
Dr. Rob Reimer says pursue God passionately by immersing yourself in the River, while Kevin Reeves says pursue God passionately apart from the River.
What "River" is that? We'll use Reeves' description which reads: "The River Revival movement--encompassing the Toronto Blessing, Brownsville Revival (or Pensacola Outpouring), Dominion, Latter Rain, Word of Faith, Rodney Howard-Browne's laughing revival, the Kansas City Prophets, and an arbitrary mix of all or some of the aforementioned--..." (p.22)
Purpose: To enable the reader to understand there are dangers lurking in the River; and that they need to be aware of, and ready to confront these deceptions armed with Scripture.
Ezekiel 47:9: "Where the River Flows:"
Reimer's River References: Reimer's first verse is Ezekiel 47:9: "Where the river flows everything will live." Reimer writes, "At the end of Ezekiel, the prophet receives a vision of water flowing and getting deeper and deeper, until finally it became a river Ezekiel could not cross."
Then, records Reimer, the Lord told Ezekiel that where the river flows everything would live. Of this river Reimer relates, "It is the River of Life. Jesus connected these Old Testament prophecies to the coming of the Holy Spirit. He becomes in us that River of Life." (pp.90-91)
Reeves' River References: "Removed from its proper setting the 47th chapter of Ezekiel ... is used to promote a last days vision for the church. In its proper context ... this wonderful prophecy is an en-couragement that God has not forgotten His covenant people of Israel. But overstepping the sanctity of scriptural boundaries, this passage has been reshaped into the comfortable doctrines of easy be-
lievism and sensual manifestations that mark a shift in the church. As believers we have taken a hairpin turn from the preeminence of the Word to a relative, experiential, and terrible apostate faith."
Reeves on River Songs: In the years after the Toronto Blessing Vineyard worship songs were filled with references to water. Reeves writes, "A take off from the prophecy of Ezekiel 47, the symbol of the Holy Spirit became our gateway to the supernatural. One song, we began singing ... told about a rushing torrent flowing from God to touch those who need reviving. ... Another song that promoted spiritual drunkenness spoke of God's people asking for a drink of the Spirit ...." (p.162)
Quests for Impartations: Passing the Power:
Reimer's Impartation Reflections: "There is a Biblical concept of impartation. Jesus told his disciples, "Freely you have received, freely give." (Matthew 10:8) Reimer states, "I love being prayed for and having people lay hands on me. When I go to conferences or when I get around people of anointing and spiritual power I ask them to lay hands on me and to pray for me. ... I've had people from evangelical and charismatic circles lay hands on me ... I've had world renown leaders pray for me, who were anointed by God and who impacted my life through their work. ..." (pp.42-43)
Reeves' Impartation Reflections: Reeves writes, "While the Bible does refer to an anointing (I John 2:27), it has in these days of sensual faith been contorted almost beyond recognition. And as with so much of hyper-charismatic experience has been placed in the realm of something to be reached for, pursued, or worked up in order to be obtained." (p. 80)
Reeves further comments, "... some people ... are looked upon as being more anointed than others. This naturally presupposes the necessity of making a journey to wherever they happen to be ministering in order to be touched by them, and consequently by God. It is universally recognized by River adherents that the impartation is passed from person to person via the laying on of hands, and that belief has provoked a virtual scramble among regular church members to get to the preacher that has 'it'". (pp. 80-81)
Randy Clark: Global Awakening:
Reimer References Clark: In a June 16, 2013 sermon, Reimer revealed that he and his family would be going on a Brazil mission trip with the Randy Clark ministry where he planned to seek special impartation from Randy. In this same sermon Reimer told of Heidi Baker's amazing impartation from Clark where she was "laid out" for seven days. This 2013 Brazilian trip is noted twice in the book. (pp.34,154)
Reeves References Clark: Reeves names Clark in conjunction with the Toronto Blessing. Reeves reflects, "... the Toronto Blessings official origin stems from a message preached by Randy Clark, who received his 'impartation' from Rodney Howard-Browne, who himself was holding services in Kenneth Hagin Jr.'s Rhema Bible Church in Tulsa in 1993. Clark's messages in January 1994, at what was then the Toronto Airport Vineyard church, were the main catalyst for the doctrines, mani-
festations, and practices seen in the River movement today." (pp.12-13)
Global Awakening History: "Of all the things Randy values, this ministry of 'impartation' is the most important to him. ... He ... recognizes ... that the Kingdom of God will be more powerfully impacted by ministering a fresh impartation of the Spirit to pastors, leaders, and their people. This causes a ripple-effect- for each pastor or leader who receives a powerful impartation, a multitude of oppor-
tunities open up for those pastors and laity to impact others." (Global Awakening Web Site)
John Wimber: Vineyard Movement Founder:
Reimer on Wimber: In regard to misusing or abusing a prophetic word Reimer quotes Wimber as once saying, "The answer is not disuse; it is right use." He also cites a Wimber story taken from Power Evangelism where Wimber had the word "adultery" in his mind's eye that he explored with a man with whom he was traveling. (pp.55,67,81)
Reimer also tells (9-9-12) in his "Open Doors, Open Hearts" sermon how Dean Ron Walborn (ATS) had an impartation from Wimber that greatly increased his healing successes. In another sermon (11-4-12) Reimer relates Wimber's "Honeycomb Vision." On (3-8-2015) Reimer once more uses a Wimber example. http://www.southshorecommunitychurchma.com/teaching/sermons/open-doors-open-hearts/
Reeves on Wimber: Reeves writes that the two words for which Wimber is remembered has to be "paradigm shift." Reeves notes, "It was the Vineyard magnate John Wimber who ushered into popularity the term paradigm shift ... or a major alteration in our method of approaching God and allowing Him to approach us. The old study method is ... no longer adequate. Indeed, says Reeves, "Experience is what counts, they say, and all the head knowledge we've been accumulating all these years is a big waster of time." (pp.166-167)
Reeves continues, "Wimber ... first introduced ... the incredibly strange manifestations that are supposedly initiated by the Holy Spirit. Pogoing (jumping up and down in place), rippling on or under the skin, tingling, shaking, convulsions, uncontrollable laughter, --many of the same mani-
festations traditionally attributed to demonic influence ... It is shocking and frightening to see the similarities between Wimber's manifestations and what is called Kundalini ..."* (p.167)
* The term for the force that underlies Hindu spirituality.
Reimer's Holy Laughter Thoughts: Reimer mentions "holy laughter" in his section "Manifesta-
tions of God's Presence." This is akin, he says, to the disciples being filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit as in Acts 13:52.
Now, from his revival study Reimer declares that "holy laughter" has accompanied many revivals in the past--predating the "holy laughter" in a "revival that had received some press."* So, surely then holy laughter can be sanctioned maintains Reimer.
* Reimer fails to name this revival.
Well, one would agree there's been joy and laughter recorded in the past; and as history has recorded, ala Dr. Paul L. King in Genuine Gold, in early circles there was also much controversy about such outbursts. But, in this day and age, video has recorded the latest rounds of radical laughter showing an out of order circus that resembles Hindu Kundalini manifestations. One has only to glimpse various videos to see bizarre, unruly, unholy demonstrations that cannot be considered Holy Spirit manifestations! (pp.96-97)
Reeves' Holy Laughter Thoughts: Reeves' response to "holy laughter" is graphically described in his chapter: "The Very Last Laugh." Reeves tells of his church's "unstoppable laughter" where folks were lying topsy turvy, red-faced convulsing hysterically. (p.127)
As a one-time supporter of such laughter Reeves reflects perhaps this gives him "a one-up" on those who have seen it from the outside. Reeves relates because of many personal encounters with this phenomena he feels strongly that its source is not of the Lord. Reeves says, "If these things happened in a bar, we as Christians would be rightly appalled. But when they occur, and continue to occur ... in the very sanctuary of our churches, then we are expected to look on with indifference and believe that somehow-- in some unfathomable way that was never revealed by our Lord, the apostles, or the prophets of old--that God is at work. The righteous horror at such fleshly exhibition has faded in the growing shadow of popular Christian myth, fulfilling the Scripture '[A]nd the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play. (Exodus 32:6)'" (p. 137)
Reeves also refers to Warren Smith's intriguing study of "laughter verses" in Scripture where Smith found forty laughter references. Of these forty, twenty-two referred to scornful laugher. And seven had to do with the Sarah/Abraham story, while three in the New Testament warn against laughter. For much more read Smith's booklet: Holy Laughter or Strong Delusion? (p.138)
A Word From God:
Reimer on a Word From God: Reimer reasserts that he's emphasized one must humbly test what we're hearing. He writes, "When we receive a Word from God--whether it be a whisper, a picture, a dream, a feeling--the first things we need to do is test it."
How does one do this? Begin with Scripture first, instructs Reimer. If that's not clear, test it with Spirit-filled, discerning Christians. Writes Reimer, "I won't test words with someone who treats prophecy with contempt. ... I will test words with someone who honors prophecy, and walks in humility, and has displayed discernment." And adds Reimer, "At South Shore Community Church, if I receive a prompting of the Spirit, I test it with other staff members ..." (pp.69-70)
Recall my Reimer's River Dweller's review where I mention that someone Reimer uses to test "words from the Lord" is a lady associate pastor, who is part of a holistic center called "The Well," where she teaches meditation and spiritual direction. What a pity Reimer has this lady as his associate pastor, never mind testing prophetic words!
Reimer's section: "Relaying the Messages of God" has this mind-blowing statement: "Sometimes the Lord will give us a specific word of knowledge we have no human way of knowing for someone who doesn't yet believe, and it will move the person's heart. Jesus had this kind of encounter with the woman at the well in John chapter 4. He gets specific knowledge about her--she was married five times before, and the man she was living with now was not her husband. It is a game changer for her, and she ends up believing because of His prophetic insight." The Christ, the Messiah gets specific knowledge and has "prophetic insight?" (p.76)
Reeves on a Word From God: In Reeves' chapter "The Word of the Lord?" in "Thus Saith ... Who?" he voices the fact that when it comes to false prophecy we've failed big time when it comes to hold-
ing to the plain truth from Scripture. Reeves quotes Deuteronomy 18:20-22. He especially notes verse twenty-two: "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die." Reeves underlines this noting, "Presumption (i.e., false prophecy) was punishable by death."
In his hyper-charismatic church Reeves pointed out that very few prophecies were ever corrective, but were mostly pleasant. Reeves also noted that in his camp so called "prophets" were to grow into the prophetic, and could even be sent to so called "Schools of the Prophets" so as to mature in signs and wonders. (p.92)
Reeves writes true Biblical prophecy was never "exploratory," but always spot on the very first time! And the perfect example, notes Reeves, is the prophet Nathan saying to David, "Thou art the man!"
(p. 96) Contrast that to Reimer who teaches one to ask exploratory questions such as: "Can I ask you a question?" or "Does that mean anything to you?" (p.61,63 R.D.)
Being Slain in the Spirit:
Reimer on Being Slain in the Spirit: In "Manifestations of God's Presence" Reimer mentions a mani-
festation that can be seen occurs when people fall under the weight of God's presence. He notes that in early CMA history there were numerous people falling in prostration as recorded by Paul King in Genuine Gold. A prime example of being slain in the spirit, states Reimer, would be the Apostle John falling at the feet of Jesus as though dead. (Rev. 1:17) (p.97) Note, the question here would be why did John fall down? And the answer would be, it was in worship.
Reimer relates that during a "Holy Spirit Weekend" they often have such happenings. For example a big man named Bill felt sure he wouldn't fall, but with one touch from Reimer down he went. A lady tried to catch him but couldn't. Bill then began laughing during which Reimer prayed, "Give him more, God! He's a big man; he needs more. Fill him up!" (p.98)
Reeves on Being Slain in the Spirit: Reeves, after his repeated observations, noted how disorderly much of this phenomena actually was. He recalled one particular lady who did this rather frequently; only immediately after falling, she'd sit up to straighten her clothing lying back down quickly. If she was truly under such power puzzled Reeves how could she get up so quickly? This then made him think of men falling atop women, and vice versa. Reeves then quotes, "Let all things be done decently, and in order." (I Corinthians 14:40) (p.74)
Reeves asks the question, "Where did being slain in the spirit come from?' Reeves says their favorite answer came from the passage in II Chronicles 5:13-14 where it speaks of the priests not being able to stand to minister by reason of the glory of the Lord. But reading further on in II
Chronicles 7:1-2 reveals the reason the priests weren't ministering in the house of God was they weren't there at all but outside! Reeves records, "While charismatic teaching would have us believe the temple was littered with ... incapacitated priests, the Old Testament simply tells us they could not even enter into the area where God had manifested His glory!" (p.77)
Don't miss Lighthouse Trails new booklet: Slain in the Spirit: Is it a Biblical Practice? by Kevin Reeves.
Some Thoughts on Catholicism:
Reimer on Catholicism: Into his River mix Reimer inserts references to the monastery where he had many Holy Spirit encounters. In addition, he refers to St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence, listening prayer, silence, solitude, monks, Father Robert, R. Thomas Ashbrook's
Mansions of the Heart, Dark Night of the Soul, and more. Reimer writes just as if these people, and practices are what a-- saved by grace alone-- Christian should emulate, and partake of. Not once does Reimer warn the reader what Catholicism actually embraces.
Reeves on Catholicism: Reeves, in contrast, reveals that both he and his wife were saved out of Catholicism. Speaking of a sermon that he once heard, he recalled that it "focused on the doctrinal abuses within the Catholic Church, spotlighting the specific practices of certain penitent of the Roman clergy. Priests would abuse their bodies to the point of death with self imposed penance in order to secure acceptance into heaven. Having spent twenty-four loyal years within the ranks of Roman Catholicism, ... I was understandably horrified. Yet I well knew such abuses were indeed possible. The Catholic Church's emphasis of salvation through an unceasing battery of good works was a fertile breeding ground for fanaticism." (p.16)
Reeves reports after being entrapped in Catholicism, he and his wife were later so deeply wrapped up in the River Movement that Reeves relates, "Both of us having left one system of that ilk (Roman Catholicism), we had jumped feet first into another, and avoided the liberating message set forth in the Gospel. As with every religious system outside of the Gospel, do this, don't do that, don't touch, grab for this--a manmade set of rules had rendered the Word of God of no effect." (p.200)
More, More, More!
Reimer on the Pursuit of More: Reimer writes, "For the past few years I have been seeking more of God. I have been pursuing and chasing him fervently. Sometimes I have given up food to pursue God vigorously. I've gone on longer fasts than before. Sometimes I have given up sleep to get up in the night to pursue God. ... I've spent more time in worship, and I've spent more time in solitude and silence. I have spent large blocks of time alone with God--about every other month I go to a monastery to pursue God for a day or two. I am on pursuit." (p.41)
Reeves on the Pursuit of More: Reeves describes his River pursuit saying, "My spiritual legs became heavy from running after every 'wind of doctrine' that blew through our ranks. There was never a place of satisfaction, that Sabbath rest spoken of in Hebrews 4. While the anointing we pursued promised be refreshing, all it did was hone, razor-sharp, the craving for another spiritual high. We at New Covenant were caught up on an unceasing merry-go-round." (p.200)
When Reeves realized he was caught in a web of bondage and deception to the River rituals, he courageously risked all to come out of the River. And as the back cover of his book reads, "Even though the cost was high and even if he had to stand alone, his journey back into the simplicity of Jesus Christ would be worth the price." Reimer, on the other hand, each day is taking those he influences --seminary students, church members, and pastors-- deeper into the River. And while I believe he is very sincere in his desires, following his suggestions will lead one into many deceptions whether it be in the River, or into Catholicism.
In addition, I would like to challenge discerning Christians to consider Reeves' admonitions and warnings reading his book to further inform yourself, your friends, and your family of what the River really is all about!
Learn to Discern Granny Verse: II Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
For More Information:
Lighthouse Trails Booklets:
False Revival Coming? Part I: Holy Laughter or Strong Delusion? by Warren B. Smith
Slain in the Spirit: Is it a Biblical Practice? by Kevin Reeves
Wide Is the Gate: The Emerging New Christianity Volume 3 The back of the DVD reads: "This final Volume features the Hyper-Charismatic and Pentecostal Movements represented by a variety of names and leaders. This supposed 'new move of the Holy Spirit' coined as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is also known as Third Wave, Manifest Sons of God, Latter Rain, Kingdom Now, Word Faith, Fresh Fire, and has many other names!" http://caryl.tv/
Read These Previous "Learn to Discern Granny" Reviews:
Kevin Reeves' Riveting Story of His River Movement Exit: A Review of The Other Side of the River
River of Life, or River of Deception? A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer's River Dwellers